War Liberal

Question on comment #2....

As you stated in comment 1, there are serious human rights issues in the world today. Do you agree what it is America's "duty" to fight these injustices with military force?

Well, a country, like a man, needs to know its limitations. The Civil War was about cleaning our own house; it's just not possible to clean up everyone's. It's our duty to do what we can to stop these injustices, but military force is probably not the normal answer and will often just make things worse. There are times when it is justified.

Regarding slavery and technology, didn't the invention of the cotton gin actually increase slavery?

I believe so, or at least made it more practical in certain areas where slavery was already practiced on a small scale.

The cotton gin plus slavery concentrated enormous amounts of wealth into a tiny percentage of the citizenship... much like the combination of cheap oil and cheap foreign labor is doing right now.

"5.[b] Similarly, Libertarians are (bizarrely) incapable of understanding that personal liberty depends upon a strong government, one that keeps the wealthy and powerful from exploiting the poor and weak[/b]. American history is rife with examples of individual citizens and corporations denying personal liberty to countless individuals. The checks and balances between the public and private sector are just as important as those between the branches of government."

Ok.. I read both sides of three blogs and found your posting here..

Very interesting reading but I noticed that your sadley not grasping something that to me is plainly obvious.

Where in the Consitution does it say that our government is responsible to keep the wealthy from exploiting or using the poor? The same government that you claim that must protect the poor is also for those who are wealthy.

What I really laugh at in these kinds of statements about what folks believe that government should "protect the poor" are hauling down a line that Communist governments calim they did.. but never did.. make everyone equal economically.

But like you said.. its your site.. your views.. at least that is something we can directly agree with.

The genius of the Constitution is that, with the exception of one now-repealed amendment, it does not say exactly what the government CAN do, only what it can not do. The rest of the details are left up to federal and state laws.

So the real question should not be, "where in the Constitution does it say the government is responsible to keep the wealthy from exploiting or using the poor?" but rather, "where in the Constitution does it say that the government is not allowed to keep the wealthy from exploiting or using the poor?"

The answer is nowhere, so technically it can create and enforce such laws however it sees fit.

I see, you're for "liberty" for those who can afford it. If you can't buy yourself some goons to protect your interests you probably deserve to be forced into servitude.

I've posted my response to this post. Thanks for the dialogue. Hope your blood pressure is OK.

Trevor sees no difference between paying taxes in exchange for government services and being owned as a full-time piece of human property. That tells me all I need to know about him.

Hell, I know some regular posters here who believe the same thing, only they object to paying any kind of money in exchange for any kind of service. Capitalism is slavery, etc. etc.

If I were paying for the services and using them, that would be fine. My problem is that the services suck, I don't use them, don't want them and am not getting anything out of them, but I'm still forced to pay.

The services may suck, but it's important that they be provided by any government that can proclaim itself "democratic." Dying people are not dead people, and are capable of a great deal of senseless violence, especialy in large numbers. Their violence must either be met with oppression (no democracy for you!) or succumbed to (no peace OR democracy for you!)

As a society grows, the expected minimum standard changes. The government, the bureaucracy, and the taxes are there because we needed to adapt to those changes. At the same time, it's possible that the minimum standard can be set too high, resulting in an economic collapse as people simply stop trying to make money and expect the government to take care of them.

We've done a decent balancing act so far. Hopefully we can continue to do so for some time to come.

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

Thomas Jefferson

"A nation, as a society, forms a moral person, and every member of it is personally responsible for his society." -- Thomas Jefferson

"The laws of humanity make it a duty for nations, as well as individuals, to succor those whom accident and distress have thrown upon them." -- Thomas Jefferson

Wow, Trevor, I can make fallacious appeals to authority, too. Anything else to share with the class?

If I didn't believe I was personally responsible for society, why would I bother trying to have a conversation, Surfer?